Archive Record
Metadata
Object # |
2005.007.003 |
Object Name |
Tape, Audio |
Description |
Interview with Peter Converse covering the following topics: Converse family history Converse Point history Second World War Marion to Bermuda race Marion summer community Peter Converse It is December the 5th, 1995, and this is Christina Kingston speaking with Peter Converse of the Moorings, Converse Road, Marion, MA as part of the Sippican Historical Society's - Oral History Project. Peter Converse: Well, what is now Converse Point began to my knowledge as Charles Neck, which was King Charles of the Indians. The Blakes were the family who bought it and in the early charts and in fact up through the war, it was called Blake's Point. The charts now call it Converse Point. Interviewer: When you refer to the charts, is that the nautical charts. And which war did you refer to? Peter Converse: The Second World War Interviewer: Our war. Peter Converse: Our war, yes. Interviewer: And now it's Converse Point, but originally there were four houses, did you mention? Peter Converse: When my grandfather developed the point in 1903, there was the quote big house at the end of the point, the then quote superintendent's cottage was halfway down the point facing the Marion harbor and then at the gates there was the gate lodge, which is now Peggy Francis' house. Just inside from her was a house right down on the water which was called quote Gosh Hollow unquote. It was actually owned by the Pearce Archer family, then they sold it to current owners, the Olsons, except Eric Olson is deceased and Joan the widow is there now. Interviewer: Just for the record, what is your grandfather's full name? Peter Converse: Harry Elisha Converse Interviewer: And his wife? Peter Converse: His wife was Mary Parker. * Interviewer: That's the name I've heard. Can you tell us about Mary Parker? Peter Converse: Well, she liked to ... My grandfather had a lovely yacht and she was, I guess, one of the original woman's lib, but she decided to get her first mate's papers and she went through all the procedure and through pulling a few strings, why she actually had some sea duty on a freighter going to Africa. Then, when the Second World War broke out, the merchant marine needed captains and so they promoted anybody. All the first mates to captain who could pass the written exam and waived the sea duty requirement. She bingo, bango took the exam and quick got photographed with four stripes on her sleeve before they realized that M.P. Converse was a woman. But she wound up during the war teaching navigation in Denver. Interviewer: She was something of a mathematical whiz, wasn't she? Peter Converse: She worked with Tommy Thompson, Admiral Thompson at the South Pole. She was corresponding with him and she wrote a book on celestial navigation. My grandfather, Harry Elisha Converse and his wife Mary Parker had five children. The eldest was Elisha, but the name he was called by was Duly. I always knew him as Uncle Duly and then the next would be Margaret or Aunt Peggy, she married John Butler. There was Roger Converse, he had two marriages. He was the one who bought the real estate business from Nelson Emmons and became the Roger W. Converse realty. He also was the one who developed Piney Point and turned that from the wilderness into house lots. I've got them in the wrong order in terms of ages. Elizabeth was the youngest and she had two marriages. The first one was at her mother's behest, Mary Parker, to a convict and that didn't last, fortunately. And her second marriage was to George Cutting and they had a lovely place down in Warrington, VA. Dad, Witt Parker was his first name, named after his mother's family name. He was born in 1898 and of the five, three were interested in Marion. Uncle Duly went out to California and as I said before, Elizabeth went down to Virginia, but Dad and his sister Peggy who married John Butler stayed here in Marion and it was interesting the way they developed the point. They cut the point in half and Aunt Peggy took everything on the Aucoot cove side and this is after my grandfather died leaving the land to his children. Dad had the land on the Sippican harbor side and Uncle Govy got a strip across the middle which in my youth was called Govy's alley. He was in the throes of a divorce in Paris or something, so he was not really defending himself in getting a third. Interviewer: Well, when you called him Uncle Govy, you mean Roger. His family nickname was Govy. Peter Converse: The reason being that he was named after the governor of Massachusetts, Roger Walcot. He became Uncle Govy. Interviewer: The family, in regards to grandmother Mary's interests in the navy and so forth, was there any connection with the navy among the family members of your father's generation as well or their sons? I know there were visiting admirals here at different times. Peter Converse: Dad was in both wars. In the First World War, he was in the north Atlantic, In the Second World War, he was in the Coast Guard and he was a lieutenant in the Coast Guard on an attack transport and was involved in the invasion of Okinowa. I was in the navy and involved in the invasions of Anzio and S. France. The whole family was water oriented. The Butler family, John the son, Jack Butler who would be a couple of years older than I, he was in the Coast Guard, an officer in the Coast Guard in the war. Interviewer: I can see why the setting of Charles Neck would appeal to the Converses and all their family, because it's really a very striking setting. Very beautiful. Was the BeverlyYacht Club, it had a different name when ft was first built. Was it the Kittensett Club? Was there a yacht club down at this end? Peter Converse: The Beverly Yacht Club when ft moved to Marion, ft's location was out on the end of the point. Butler's point in effect next to the golf course, the Kittensett Club, but the '38 hurricane demolished it. It was not rebuilt out there, mainly because the point had been washed in so much. It lost an awful lot of shoreline out there. So they moved around. First they were down at near Barden's and now they're... No, first they went to what was the Register house,... Interviewer: Should we pause the recorder? Peter Converse: This was a summer home for the family, for most families in fact at that time, all the families on the Converse Point. The Carringtons lived in Scarsdale, NY. He was a banker in New York. So this was a summer community. This house for instance, Mother and Dad had it rigged so that the furnace would heat the bedroom and the kitchen and so they could come down on weekends, but the house was not built as a year round home. Until Sheila and I rebuilt it and insulated it. Eighty four thermal pane windows. I remember that statistic when I paid the bill. Interviewer: Your memories as a boy here, they were all sailing, I'm sure and tennis. Peter Converse: For me it was idyllic, for my bringing up here, I had companions my own age, of course we were all related, but we were spoiled brats. We had raced in our Herreschoff 12s at the Beverly Yacht Club. Then there were so many of them that they had 2 divisions for the start and there'd be about 20 in each division and the other boats then were the 15 Herreschoff and then the lovely boats, the 30 square meters, in Marion there were only 2, but they had the International Square Meter championship here which was a beautiful sight and this was before the '38 hurricane. Interviewer: Now has that class of boat sort of just ran out so you can't have a meet now? It must have been something to see. Thirty meters would that be the sail size? Peter Converse: I believe it means it's 30 square meters of sail area. The successor to, in Marion, the class that became the very good one was the Yankee. It was a 30 foot sloop and there were 8 of them here and there were about five in the Vineyard and Nantucket. They were a very good racing boat, but then the '38 hurricane washed a lot of them ashore and when they rebuilt them after the war, the timber was not very good. The fleet, the boats had sister ribs put in and they gradually died out and the thing that killed them off was fiberglass and when fiberglass came in, why people, there was much hate here to build a fiberglass racing boat and .... Interviewer: The maintenance too which nobody has the time for. Peter Converse: The Shields is the closest to the Yankee. Interviewer: Do you know from you own memory when the Marion from Bermuda race started? Peter Converse: I think this was the ninth race. It was every other year. Because it was the opposite year from the Newport to Bermuda race. Interviewer: Have you sailed that frequently? Peter Converse: No, I've been on the race committee. I've never sailed to Bermuda. I've been to Bermuda a lot of times, but never sailed. Interviewer: Coming down another generation, you're one of three. And who are they? Peter Converse: I'm the oldest. My sister was a year and a half younger and she died of cancer in '86. Then my brother, Court was the youngest and he was killed in his gyrocopter in '68. And the interesting thing or coincidence is that in my father's family, the oldest child was the last to die and in the children of my, I mean my father's generation the same thing. Interviewer: Your sister, you didn't name your sister. Peter Converse: Pat, Patricia MacDonald She married Jim MacDonald and they were divorced for 25 years, but then they got remarried. Interviewer: That's kind of a nice story. And your brother was Court? Peter Converse: Courtland Butler Converse. The Butler was after Mother's name. Incidentally that is one thing that trips people up, that dad married June Butler and his sister married John Butler. No relation, entirely differently families. Interviewer: That has to be explained by someone in the family. Somewhere in your book, I hope. How far back do these photographs go? As long as photographs have been taken I would think. Peter Converse: No, these are just ones that I took, which would be 1928 or 1929. Interviewer: You're fortunate that they're in that black paper which holds up very well and doesn't seem to have spoiled things. Modern photographs are not going to be so good 60 to 70 years down the line. They'll probably be faded away. Peter Converse: They actually faded from the summer of '35. Interviewer: Just to return to Marion particularly, as you've seen it develop over the years what are the things that made the biggest difference to ft do you think? Was it just the volume of people coming here, nothing significant happened, not like finding gold or oil or anything. It used to be more of a commercial place way back I suppose. Peter Converse: In my life time it was a summer community, the people that I knew were really just coming for the summer. The town would be much smaller in the winter time. After the second world, Mother and Dad did live here all year round and he actually became the first selectmen in Marion. Interviewer: That's a thing I haven't heard, it must be on the town records. That's interesting. Peter Converse: I forgotten the year, you know me I don't know dates. Interviewer: They can be checked. Peter Converse: He was a selectman and he was very much involved in the town's activities and he was commodore of the Beverly Yacht Club at one time and his son, Court was also a commodore of the Beverly Yacht Club. I was away, I was working for a living in New York and starting in Schenectady, NY. Interviewer: Do you recall the people of national significance that came here, who were they, etc. Peter Converse: The main one was of course, Franklin Delano Roosevelt. He came to visit Dr. MacDonald. He had treated him for polio and had really been using the Sister Kenny treatment; swimming and it was interesting when Roosevelt came here, the navy sent four destroyers to protect him and of course the closest they could get would be out by Cleveland's ledge. Mother and Dad invited the officers to a cocktail party and they liked it so much that they came back two weeks later and to hell with the President. On that score, N Cleveland's ledge you can see it there, that was built during Roosevelt's tenure and they turned off Bird Island light. And the reason it's called Cleveland's ledge is that it was President Cleveland's favorite fishing spot. Interviewer: Is he the president who came here also and then was president and wasn't president then got back to be president? Peter Converse: You'd have to check that out. Interviewer: Well, did you have any head patting from any of the presidents when you were a boy? Did they mix very much? Peter Converse: No. When Roosevelt came, Uncle Govy met him. He knew Dr. MacDonald very well. So he had the opportunity to meet him, but we didn't. Interviewer: Is the Dr. MacDonald you refer to the husband or relative of the sister who married a MacDonald? Peter Converse: No a different MacDonald. Interviewer: Did you come up to Marion by train? When it was still running from New York? Peter Converse: Our winter home was in Boston, in Brookline. We'd drive to Marion and we had an old Franklin and it was a convertible that had isinglass windows on the side and we had to stop and it was chilly in the winter time. When I was at Hotchkiss, Amelia Earhart came, just before she took off on her final voyage, came up to Hotchkiss to see her son or actually stepson, George Putnam, who was a classmate of mine there. She married, I think her husband's name was George, too, George Putnam. Interviewer: That might have been the connection with the Converse lady and the settlement house, Densin House it was called in Dorchester. She was a benefactress, I'm sure. Can you tell me something about the churches in Marion that you recall. Peter Converse: Yes, the two main ones were the Congregational church and St. Gabriel's, the Episcopal. A cute story x about the Congregational church, if you look at it, you'll notice that you can see the clock, but on one side there's no clock. And the reason is that the person who build the thing didn't like the neighbor over there, so there's no clock on that side. On the Episcopal Church, St. Gabriel's there was a chapel and it was served by students and faculty from the theological seminary in Cambridge. It did not have a full time rector until after World War II and of course the church was rebuilt there too. Interviewer: And the Unitarian church was just a small congregation and then they sold the building? Peter Converse: I gather there weren't enough Unitarians to support it. I don't know. Interviewer: I know there's a Quaker meeting house on Route 6 toward Mattapoisett and that seems to be still alive, but the once Unitarian church is now the Marion art center which is serendipitous to say the least. Peter Converse: Peter Knowlton has probably told you that Mrs.Taber had as one of the conditions was that any child who was a native born in Marion could go to Tabor Academy tuition free. That was changed. Dad was on the board of trustees along with Jack Cunningham, but anyway for instance when my niece Heather Converse went there, she had to pay tuition, even though she was born here. Interviewer: How many children do you have? Peter Converse: Two, but my second wife Sheik has eight. Interviewer: Do some of them live in Marion? Peter Converse: No, my son lives in Chelmsford, and my daughter was living in Watertown, but is now attending University of Pennsylvania. Interviewer: That is interesting about the school They must have fallen on hard times and realized they couldn't continue without getting fees or tuition. Peter Converse: When Howard Johnson donated money to Tabor to build a new gymnasium and arena and so forth, Cunningham was in sort of a quandary, because this would cover the Converse rink and the Converse rink was what Uncle Govy and Dad had given and so he called up Mother and said that would she mind if this were called the Howard Johnson gymnasium? No, she said, so long as they don't paint it yellow. Interviewer: Well, it is the Howard Johnson rink. Peter Converse: No, it's not the rink, it's the Converse rink Interviewer: I must look at that, it's amazing how you can drive by and ... Peter Converse: Well, the building is Howard Johnson. As a matter of fact, I want to write the headmaster a letter. They are going to be shuffling things now and changing things. I want to make sure that the Converse rink is properly identified. Break in taping Peter Converse: On Butlers Point during the Second World War there was the field artillery battery. Big heavy guns. I think they were 105 mm and on Pease's Point the one on the other side of us was a search light battery. When they were practicing, when they were targeting, you could see the shells tumbling in the air, going by us before they dropped them into Buzzards Bay some place. Interviewer: I don't think that's the artillery they used for submarines, but the submarines came quite close to us. They were a real menace weren't they? Peter Converse: They couldn't get into the bay. The bay is too shallow for them, but they were off the coast and of course the thing about fishermen in New Bedford... One story was of a fisherman who took on two hundred gallons of oil and called the Coast Guard later that day to get towed in because he was out of fuel and they found out that he'd taken on two hundred gallons and sold it to the German submarine. Interviewer: Did they shoot him as a traitor? Peter Converse: I don't know what happened to him, but there was lot of illicit stuff going on. I was in a sub chaser in the Mediterranean, so I wasn't connected to the German activity over here, but there was one fabulous story about a submarine that was cornered by the destroyers off Point Judith. He went in right next to Point Judith, he shot out the Point Judith light, put a light on his periscope and blinked it as the same frequency as Point Judith light. So the story is that going around getting this ping, ping, ping on him that they looked at it and thought that must be Point Judith. They didn't know where he went and so he was completely surrounded, but they didn't fire a shot. And the other one, when they captured one submarine, why the sailors had all these stubs from New Bedford theaters in their pockets. In other words, they'd been able to get ashore and go to the theater and get back on the submarine. Interviewer: Being in a seaport of course, Liverpool... End of tape Interviewer: Christina Kingston Transcriber: Karilon F. Babbitt Grainger September 13,1999 |
Search Terms |
Beverly Yacht Club Bird Island Light Butler's Point Charles Neck Converse Point Converse Rink First Congregational Church Gosh Hollow Govy's Alley Herreshoff boats Howard Johnson Gymnasium Kittansett Club Marion to Bermuda Race Pease's Point Piney Point Point Judith Quaker Meeting House Register House St Gabriel's Episcopal Church Tabor Academy Barden's Boat Yard |
People |
Archer, Pearce Blake family Butler, John Butler, June Carringtons Charles, King (of the Indians) Converse family Converse, Courtland Butler Converse, Elizabeth Converse, Heather Converse, Margaret ("Peggy") Converse, Mary Parker Converse, Peter Converse, Roger ("Govey") Converse, Sheila Converse, Witt Parker Cunningham, Jack Earhart, Amelia Emmons, Nelson Francis, Peggy Johnson, Howard Macdonald, Patricia McDonald, William (Dr.) Parker, Witt Roosevelt, Franklin Delano (Pres.) Converse, Elisha ("Duly") Converse, Harry Elisha (Col.) Cutting, George W. Olsen, C. Eric (Mrs.) Thompson, (Admiral) |
Subjects |
World War II Submarines |
Category |
10: Unclassifiable Artifacts |
Sub-category |
Need to Classify |
Accession number |
2005.007 |